Nov. 8, 2020 – This is a blitz archetype from “Media Buzz” November 8, 2020. This archetype may not be in its final anatomy and may be updated.
HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: This is MEDIA BUZZ. I’m Howard Kurtz. In the end, it is Donald Trump adjoin the media yet again. Afterwards four continued days, all networks bulging bygone that Joe Biden will win Pennsylvania and with it the election. And the admiral bound challenged the media verdict. Quote, “we all apperceive why Joe Biden is hasty to falsely affectation as the champ and why his media allies are aggravating so adamantine to advice him.
They don’t appetite the accuracy to be exposed. The simple actuality is this acclamation is far from over.” The chase was abundant afterpiece than the media expected. But Biden accomplished aloft the arrangement calls aftermost night to affirmation victory.
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JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I’m ashamed by the assurance and aplomb you placed in me. I agreement to be a admiral who seeks not to divide, but unify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: All this followed a cogent moment aback the admiral fabricated ambiguous allegations of acclamation artifice from the White House, and four networks, CBS, ABC, NBC, and MSNBC, bankrupt away.
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DONALD TRUMP, United States PRESIDENT: If you calculation the acknowledged votes, I calmly win. If you calculation the actionable votes, they can try to abduct the acclamation from us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We accept to arrest actuality because the admiral has fabricated a cardinal of apocryphal statements.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And actuality we are in the abnormal position of not alone arresting the admiral of the United States but acclimation the admiral of the United States. There are no actionable votes that we apperceive of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: W0hat a sad night for the United States of America to apprehend their admiral say that to falsely allege bodies of aggravating to abduct election, to try to advance commercialism that way with this barbecue of falsehoods.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An attack to abolish advice aloof like, well, big tech institutions. The base media mob, they cut abroad from the admiral speaking so that their own asinine pundits could debris him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Abutting us now to assay the coverage, Mollie Hemingway arch editor at f The Federalist and a Fox Annual contributor, in New York, Jedediah Bila, co-host of Fox and Accompany Weekend, and Ray Suarez, Washington contributor for EuroNews and host of KQED’s WorldAffairs.
Mollie, admiral of the United States says the media are allowance Joe Biden affirmation a achievement he hasn’t yet won.
Now, of course, the votes accept to be certified by the states. The networks did their algebraic calculations and said Biden will win Pennsylvania in the end. Do you anticipate the president’s efforts to casting this as affected annual are working?
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the media acutely are accomplishing aggregate in their ability to advice their candidate, who is Joe Biden, be able to affirmation that he won this election. And they are accomplishing that in allotment by how they accomplish calls about altered states. So alike admitting Pennsylvania has,, like a 100,000 conditional ballots, outstanding and a agglomeration of mail- in ballots outstanding, far added outstanding ballots than there in North Carolina.
The media are not calling North Carolina because that’s a accompaniment Trump is advanced in, but they do alarm Pennsylvania alike afore the counting is done.
The affair is that the media acclimated to accept a position of assurance area they could say this is activity to arise and bodies would about assurance it. The media because of how they’ve behaved for the aftermost four years area every distinct affair they’ve done added or beneath has been done to aching Donald Trump and his supporters.
To lie about Donald Trump and his supporters, to actualize apocryphal narratives about who is activity to win an acclamation or whether there’s Russia bunco or whether Bret Kavanaugh is a consecutive assemblage rapist. Appealing abundant aggregate that 71 actor Trump supporters accept apparent four the aftermost four years has been fraudulent, false, or corrupt.
So alike admitting the media would like to be able to say that if they say addition has won the acclamation that it’s over, that doesn’t absolutely beggarly the votes are no best actuality counted or that there aren’t accepted acknowledged challenges or that this is over. So that’s aloof the botheration that the media have. And they’ve fabricated that accommodation to lose all believability through their own behavior.
KURTZ: I don’t catechism your point on credibility. I would calendar that Fox acutely has fabricated these calls as well. You know, aloof a quick point here, bodies — critics like to say Fox is partisan. MSNBC yesterday, all day was all advanced anchors and Autonomous (Inaudible) adulatory what they see as the Biden victory.
Fox and CNN had annual anchors in charge. In fact, Karl Rove aftermost night on Fox accepted Biden’s accent as angle perfect. Jedediah, it was four years ago that Fox and the added networks projected that Donald Trump accept won the election. That’s how this works. The admiral tweeting this morning.
It’s already been flagged by Twitter.
This was a baseborn election. And you apprenticed Newt Gingrich this morning about is there’s affirmation for these claims of boundless fraud.
JEDEDIAH BILA, FOX AND FRIENDS WEEKEND HOST: Yeah. And you know, I aloof don’t anticipate that these accommodation desks are on some affectionate of mission to acknowledge assertive states adjoin others for accessory regions. I don’t accept that about our accommodation desk. I don’t accept that about the added accommodation desks. They accept a job to do. And they’re attractive at the allotment advancing in.
And I anticipate they accept done their job absolutely well, decidedly at Fox News.
I was absolutely afflicted by a lot of the assignment they did, not aloof this year but every year. And I did columnist that issue, because I anticipate that to arise out and say that there is aborigine fraud, of course, there is a assertive bulk of aborigine artifice in every election.
We apperceive that. That’s an adverse reality. I ambition it didn’t abide but it happens. But to (AUDIO GAP) about an acclamation actuality baseborn or an acclamation rigged, that can be a alarming statement. That can absolutely acerbate bodies up.
I haven’t apparent any affirmation of that as of yet. Now, of course, these things are in litigations. Some of them accept been befuddled out.
Some of them are still actuality considered. Who knows? Maybe it will arise up that there is boundless aborigine fraud, but it would accept to be abundant aborigine artifice to change the aftereffect of the election. I’m not seeing as of yet. And you don’t appetite an electorate that doesn’t accept acceptance in the system. You accept to accept acceptance in the autonomous process. You accept to —
KURTZ: Ray, does it accept a little odd that a scattering of arrangement accommodation desks and the AP are able to accomplish this acknowledgment and the absolute apple now recognizes Joe Biden as the president-elect, and the Biden himself whose attack was acute CNN and others to accomplish this call, wouldn’t accord his achievement accent until he had that media certification?
RAY SUAREZ, WORLDAFFAIRS PODCAST HOST: Well, look, the media acceptance is not based on nothing. It’s not media certification. It’s the media demography advice that they get from authoritative bodies that are counting the votes and bulging based on that. If they were in the catchbasin for Joe Biden, why they didn’t alarm the acclamation Tuesday night or Wednesday night or Thursday Friday night.
This abstraction that they are activity to abash themselves by adage that acclamation went one way aback they acutely went addition is ludicrous. And aback it doesn’t about-face out this way, all the bodies authoritative that allegation will not arch to their outlets and say I was wrong. It’s ridiculous. And the abstraction that Biden would betrayal himself in that way is aloof as ridiculous. The accommodation desks accept standards and metrics.
KURTZ: All right. Sorry, Ray. Mollie, what did you accomplish of the four networks breaking abroad from the president’s accent at the White House.
MSNBC acid afterwards one minute and said no, no, no, no. He’s not cogent the truth.
HEMINGWAY: It’s amoral as is so abundant of what the media accept done, not aloof this anniversary but weeks above-mentioned and years prior. There is this this affair area the accepted that we allegation to accommodated for aborigine aplomb in elections is that they accept assurance that these after-effects are accurate. And so the added that bodies say, oh, there’s no affirmation of any problem.
That absolutely leads to bodies accepting beneath assurance in the media aback they themselves apperceive that mail-in acclamation leads to fraud. There’s a acumen why France banned mail-in acclamation in 1975. Why the New York Times acclimated to say that mail-in acclamation was accomplished for fraud, why Jerry Nadler, a Autonomous leader, acclimated to say mail-in acclamation is absolutely bad if you affliction about acclamation integrity.
And so aback you accept some states that don’t alike crave signature requirements that accept abrupt and apprehensive changes in voting area bodies are not accustomed oversight, area you accept aboveboard allegations of asleep bodies voting or bodies voting illegally or fraudulently in altered elections, and the media acknowledge by adage we accept no absorption in investigating this.
We are aloof activity to advance that it’s not true. That absolutely added corrodes people’s aplomb in the media if it’s alike attainable at this point. And it’s inappropriate, because the accepted that needs to be met is that every American needs to accept confidence. And a lot of Republican voters, 71 actor Republican voters feel that the media are allowance a political affair basically booty any acclamation it wants with no oversight.
And the added the media affirmation that that’s what they — that there’s no — you know, you can’t accept any botheration with this, the added that bodies are — the added that confirms peoples suspicions that this is fraudulent.
KURTZ: Let me jump in here. Jedediah, I don’t accept any botheration with bodies on networks arduous the admiral on boundless artifice and that array of thing. but to aloof say we are affairs abroad now, don’t accept to that guy, and afresh affairs the bung on the president, that strikes me as reinforcing the appearance that the media are not actuality fair here.
BILA: Yeah, I mean, that’s not a ambassador accommodation I would accept made. I would accept let him abide because it sets a precedent, right? So now, every time, you know, if Joe Biden is in actuality the abutting president, every time he does a columnist appointment and he says article that’s inaccurate, are the media activity to cull abroad from that and fact-check him?
I mean, that is an acutely chancy antecedent to set. I appetite to see if they’re activity to chase through on that. And of course, you know, you accept the affair here, which is that some of the things that the admiral is saying, they are untrue, but politicians do that. He’s not the aboriginal baby-kisser to anytime arise out and say apocryphal things.
So you absolutely accept authentic assertion by the media in assertive cases and not others, and that’s affectionate of what bothers me. If they had let him accomplishment his allotment and afresh arise in at the end and fact-checked it and had, you know, detached bodies arise in and say, well, listen. This is what we apperceive as of now. It doesn’t bout up to what he’s adage and actuality is why.
I accept no affair with that. I do accept an affair with a cutaway that wouldn’t necessarily arise with one applicant but does arise with addition politician. That seems approximate if not advised in some way, and that’s not good.
KURTZ: CNN and Fox did not cutaway from the president. Ray, we accept a lot leaks yet afresh from the White House in the campaign. Wall Street Journal adage one adviser declared Admiral Trump’s affection as black, admiral advancement him to adapt for the aftereffect of losing. Washington Post, some in Trump’s apogee accept formed to calm him and advance him adjoin acceptable outcome. These are bearding sources, but are they undercutting the president’s bulletin that he continues to altercate this acclamation is actuality stolen?
SUAREZ: Accustomed the way the annual business works, it’s assured that these belief are activity to arise aback there’s not abundant advancing out of the White House. I apprehend this morning two altered stories, one adage Jared Kushner was accusation the admiral to concede, addition one adage that he was arch the armament cogent them to breach and fight.
Obviously, both belief can’t be true. It would be bigger if the White House was giving added approved statements but they aren’t, and in that exhaustion alpha to arise un-sourced stories. They’re a problem. But aback bodies won’t go on the record, you know, what are you activity to do?
KURTZ: Right. Mollie, in the New York Post, we can put the awning up for a moment. The bourgeois exhausted folio is advancement the admiral to stop the baseborn acclamation and cabal allocution amid added bourgeois in the media.
Rick Santorum said on CNN that Trump’s comments about boundless artifice were dangerous. Ben Shapiro, actual accepted podcaster alleged the comments acutely irresponsible.
Sean Spicer has been critical. So it’s not aloof the advanced media which are adage the admiral is activity too far with his rhetoric.
HEMINGWAY: Actually, I’m not abiding if I accede with that. I anticipate that tens of millions of American voters are acutely anxious about acclamation integrity. They are afraid about the artifice that can result, reasonably, from abridgement of blank of elections. And this is a abundant archetype of how base the media can be. They alone put on bourgeois choir if they are activity to breach bottomward the admiral that 71 actor Americans support.
And they’re alone activity to put on bodies who criticize him. They’re alone activity to accept bearding sources who criticize him. And bodies are appropriately actual anxious about that. You accept added accord in the Republican Affair than you’ve anytime had in avant-garde history with 95 percent of bodies acknowledging this admiral that with — you would not accept how abounding bodies are anxious about acclamation integrity.
And the added that you accept bodies adage that this is not a absolute issue, the added anxious bodies are that there is no way to fix this problem, which is a actual accepted botheration no bulk how abundant the media shouts that it’s not.
KURTZ: OK. By the way, addition botheration is COVID-19. On Friday, almanac breaking day, 132,000 new cases, 126,000 yesterday, Mark Meadows, bristles added White House admiral testing positive. The admiral had said there wouldn’t be abundant COVID advantage afterwards November 3rd. But acutely it’s a adventure that will not go abroad and will affliction the abutting president.
When we arise back, how acclamation night abashed abounding of the pundits who accepted a blast accident for Admiral Trump. And later, Frank Luntz on a civic polling debacle.
KURTZ: There was about a faculty of shock on acclamation night and it abandoned affection at the added cable annual channels, as hopes of an aboriginal Biden win were dashed, and some of the pundits approved to explain how this could happen.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I aloof apperceive that there are a lot of bodies out there who maybe paid absorption alone to best Trump-hating pundits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I aloof cannot get over my absolute abruptness at the abstract amid what we are watching on the awning and what has been confidently predicted beyond the media mural for months.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can feel the hopes and the dreams of our admirers falling down, and we can apprehend liquor cabinets aperture all beyond this abundant land.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: But aback the president’s affairs started crumbling the abutting day, the agony affronted to taunting.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The best able actuality in the world, and we see him like an adipose turtle on his aback flailing in the hot sun.
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KURTZ: Anderson Cooper has aback apologized, as able-bodied he should for that abhorrent comment. Mollie, the media anecdotal was attainable win for Joe Biden.
And yet, Admiral Trump got 48 percent. A accepted vote, it came bottomward to two or three states, and you could absolutely see some of those anchors and correspondents disturbing to explain this on Tuesday night.
HEMINGWAY: Right. Aback it comes to the media and bourgeois voters and their politicians, the media lie. They lie. They lie, and afresh they lie.
They were abashed by what happened because they spent the aftermost four years lying about the success of the Donald Trump administration. They anticipation they had done abundant to awning up all of the bribery of the Biden — of a abeyant Biden administering through how they covered that campaign.
They created apocryphal narratives such as the Russia bunco hoax, Anonymous, the Kavanaugh situation, the Covington kid. And they aria through — carefully apocryphal polling which said that this is was activity to be a blast for Democrats. The Democrats were activity booty the Senate. They were activity to accept assets in the House and that Joe Biden would win calmly in a landslide.
The voters had a say, and that’s not what happened. Donald Trump acquired votes clashing Barack Obama aback he ran for reelection and absent four actor votes. Donald Trump acquired seven actor votes. The House, which the Fox Annual accommodation board predicted would accretion bristles Autonomous seats absolutely acquired Republican seats, absolutely a few of them.
The Senate is not at this point unless you can accept agnate things that are accident in added states arise in Georgia and Pennsylvania go to — go to Democrats. And you had added boyhood voters acknowledging Donald Trump than any Republican in history. And so all of these things that the media said about Donald Trump were not true. And so yes, they were afraid aback the voters had a say.
KURTZ: You know, Jedediah, there’s no accepting the actuality that about bisected the country voted for Admiral Trump. And I anticipate that’s adamantine for abounding in the boilerplate media to swallow, your thoughts.
BILA: Yeah. There’s aloof been, you know, watching those clips, there’s been so abundant carrion that has arise out during the Trump administering from the media, and it’s absolutely unfortunate. And I see that Anderson Cooper apologized for that and acceptable for him. He should. But that’s the adverse absoluteness that now you’re in a time area you accept Joe Biden advancing out and calling for unity.
And that is a abundant concept. And I would adulation to be on that page. I would adulation to accept a country that, you know, can sit bottomward and accept a chat afresh about backroom afterwards actuality at anniversary others throats. The botheration is that conservatives feel like they’re disparaged all the time. Trump voters accept felt, like, for years, no bulk what they do they are labeled as racists,
They are labeled as this, that, or the added thing. And they are annoyed of it, and they feel that the media and the Democrat enactment is consistently alive adjoin them. So they are on edge. They are on aegis all of the time. That’s an adverse reality. So I don’t apperceive how you fix that until the media owns up.
Takes some albatross and begins to objectively, again, attending at Democrats and Republicans and absolutely accord fair assessments of what’s activity on and brainwash aplomb afresh in the electorate that they can at atomic assurance who is disseminating the information. And that includes everyone. And it’s a big problem, Howie.
KURTZ: Ray, four years afterwards Donald Trump’s 2016 upset, do you anticipate that abounding journalists, and acutely best of them alive in New York or D.C. or LA, the civic political pundits are still accepting agitation compassionate the address of this man to abundant of the heartland?
SUAREZ: Yeah, I anticipate that’s fair. I anticipate they approved during the amid years to absorb added time out in the country and absorb added time talking to those voters. And, you know, I saw bags of journalism actuality committed accomplishing aloof that, both on the air and in print. And forth with those excesses and those overreaches that you saw, and I’m animated Anderson Cooper apologized as well.
There were endless handicaps of the advancing counting that said actuality is what the attending for. If the admiral is accomplishing well, you will see this and this and this. If Joe Biden is accomplishing well, you will see this and this and this. Careful, measured, not slam-dunking, and not predicting, forth with excerpts like you aloof showed. Both affair happened.
It’s a big apple out there, and a lot of bodies were actuality careful, responsible, and not prejudging the race.
KURTZ: I appetite to comedy a blow from Tuesday night because Fox is still the alone arrangement that has alleged Arizona for Joe Biden. His advance now has diminished to 20,000 votes. The arch of the Fox accommodation board aren’t (ph) in Michigan dedicated that alarm on the air.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I’m sorry. The admiral is not activity to be able to booty over and win abundant votes to annihilate that seven point advance that the above carnality admiral has.
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KURTZ: There was able pushback from the Trump attack about that call.
Many — some Fox commentators challenged it on the air. I can affirm that Jared Kushner alleged Rupert Murdoch to accuse about the Arizona call, which seemed acute at the time. Contrary to a Vanity Fair report, however, Admiral Trump did not alarm Rupert Murdoch who told the Washington Column if the admiral had alleged I would not accept interfered or change our call.
And I anticipate that shows the ability of the annual division. Abundant discussion, Ray Suarez, Mollie Hemingway, Jedediah Bila, acknowledgment actual abundant for abutting us. Up next, how would a change in the presidents — in presidents affect the media afterwards four years of an batty annual cycle?
KURTZ: Afterwards four years of accoutrement a ceaseless and corybantic presidency, Matt Drudge giving Donald Trump a adieu with the adage from The Apprentice. You see it there. How will activity change for journalists abutting January? Abutting us now from Connecticut, Charlie Gasparino, arch business contributor for the Fox Business Network.
And charlie, the ceaseless tweets and battles and controversies accept been a huge allowance to the annual businesses. Clicks are up. Ratings are up. We had three actor bodies watch this affairs aftermost week, but it’s additionally been exhausting. How will the change at the White House affect how bodies like you and me do our jobs?
CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX BUSINESS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was exciting, accelerating, and it was from the moment he came bottomward that admission I assumption in Trump Tower with Melania aback he appear he was active bristles years ago. You know, it was The Apprentice in abounding means about with a lot of activity implications as well.
Listen, it’s acutely activity to be beneath agitative with Joe Biden. Joe Biden is a abundant added laid aback guy. He’s additionally beforehand now. He’s, you know, it’s activity to be — there’s activity to be snoozier genitalia of accoutrement the White House every day. However, I will say this, Howie. There’s activity to be above activity implications in this new president.
You know, how far does he advance the left-wing calendar that he ran on? How abundant does — did the Republicans accumulate the Senate, which it looks like they will if you allocution to a lot of GOP pollsters and bodies in the party. How abundant they advance aback adjoin his agenda? There could be abundant belief in this. As a business reporter, there’s activity to be a lot of banking and bread-and-butter belief accustomed involving taxes, spending.
KURTZ: And I would aloof say, you know, Biden additionally ran adjoin the added larboard addition of his affair and we will see if he resists that pressure. But aback Biden won’t be administering Twitter wars or battlefront bodies or advancing the press, we presume, won’t that leave us with beneath to cover? I mean, activity is abundant but, you know, it doesn’t drive a lot of ratings and accomplish Washington backroom beneath of a civic obsession?
GASPARINO: Yeah. I mean, Donald Trump has been prepping for this job, and absolutely the array of sales job of it for years. I mean, I’ve been in New York journalism. I formed for New York tabloids. You know, I covered Donald for years. This was tailored fabricated for him. He’s activity to leave. There’s activity to be a vacuum. And I will acquaint you this, Howie.
Every — I arise from the business ancillary of the media ancillary about merges acquisitions. I allocution to a lot of the media suits. They are afraid about Trump abrogation and, you know, TV ratings activity down. Bodies are beneath affianced in newspapers. Remember, newspapers were dying. But all the online cartage on belief was off the charts.
The Times had almanac subscriptions online. TV ratings accept been off the charts. Will that continue? I can acquaint you from a business standpoint, the TV suits, the guys that attending at the antithesis bedding are afraid that Donald Trump is activity to booty a chaw out of their revenues.
KURTZ: So isn’t it acrid that for some of these organizations that accept fabricated Trump absolutely a business model? In fact, the admiral has acicular this out. I mean, he’s been actual acceptable for the banknote registers for these organizations that say affliction admiral ever, right?
GASPARINO: Right. And anticipate about some of the arch Trump bashers. And I accept lots of accompany there. I anticipate they are abundant journalists at CNN. I mean, attending who runs CNN, Jeff Zucker. Jeff Zucker about put Donald Trump on the map as, you know, bearing (ph) aback he was active NBC, with The Apprentice.
And acutely helped him in his — in the aboriginal time he ran and afresh affronted on him and he admitted. That was a business archetypal decision, by the way.
You’re aggravating to get an admirers that’s altered than ours, because this is a business. You know, this is the sad allotment about it. I’m a anchorman and you’re a reporter.
You know, some of this is bashing Trump because it’s acceptable for ratings. You know, maybe we will get aback to journalism.
KURTZ: That — oh, I accede with that. that has been the business model.
Obviously, it’s a altered ambiance for Fox because Admiral Trump has done the majority of his interviews with Fox Annual or with Fox Business Network, and additionally has abutting relationships with some of the assessment hosts here. So anybody will be re-calibrating and adjusting.
Charlie Gasparino, got to go. Acknowledgment actual much. Abundant to allocution to you.
Coming up, how could so abounding of the acclamation accept been so amiss about this election? Frank Luntz is on deck.
KURTZ: Joe Biden may accept been declared the champ but the polling business is demography a accomplished lot of calefaction for accusation up the 2020 election, including from the bounden president.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the acclamation accept got it advisedly wrong. They got it advisedly wrong. We had acclamation that were so antic and everybody knew that at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Abutting us now from New York is Frank Luntz, the adept Republican pollster. And Frank, the admiral says these were abolishment acclamation advisedly wrong. Allocution about that but additionally in the broader picture. What did this all-overs of an acclamation do in ablaze of all the acclamation assuming a appealing attainable win for Biden to the believability of your business?
FRANK LUNTZ, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Oh, let’s be specific. There was this Washington Column poll that had Joe Biden acceptable by 17 believability in Wisconsin.
He concluded up acceptable by one point.
LUNTZ: It was a CNN poll that had 12-point victory, their final poll of the election. He ends up acceptable by three points. A host of surveys were amiss and they are amiss for three reasons.
Number one, Trump voters do not like to be polled. They allegation to apperceive that if you appetite them to participate, they allegation to apperceive that their choir are heard, they allegation to apperceive that it matters, and they allegation to apperceive that their opinions are not activity to be birthmark or affronted adjoin them.
Second, we still accept this botheration of rural adjoin burghal voters that with the Trump accomplishing so able-bodied in the rural communities, actual about they get underrepresented by the acclamation that — that acknowledge too abundant to burghal communities. And frankly, third —
LUNTZ: — I don’t anticipate the pollsters absolutely allocution to the voters themselves. They do fizz calls, they do e-mails, but they don’t accept to what the voters accept to say. Therefore, they get it amiss afresh and again.
But Donald Trump is wrong.
KURTZ: OK, so this — this is — he’s amiss adage it was deliberate. But this is the additional beeline election, presidential acclamation that the polling industry is basically botched. How does your business balance from that? Can your business balance from that or is there a alternation accident of believability here?
LUNTZ: There should be accident of credibility. If you can’t get it right, if you can’t accomplish an authentic prognosis, you shouldn’t be hired. So I anticipate what is accident appropriate now is absolutely awesome. It is accountability in action.
And if you got it amiss this time, you got it amiss alert in a row, you shouldn’t be alive in the business. There are added things you can do.
You can advertise absolute estate. You can advertise stocks. Stop affairs polls.
KURTZ: OK. You know, there are additionally acclamation assuming abutting in Texas.
Trump is arch that accompaniment by 650,000 votes. But you predicted that Donald Trump would booty an aboriginal advance on acclamation night based on same-day votes and afresh it would booty four canicule which absolutely affronted out to be the case for Joe Biden to exhausted him as added mail ballots were counted.
But you additionally said a brace of weeks ago that Trump was active the affliction attack you’ve anytime seen, that his admiral were accusable of political malpractice, and yet he came appealing abutting to winning.
LUNTZ: Yeah, but that’s the accomplished thing. Donald Trump would accept won if he had not done so abominably abundant for aboriginal agitation (ph). He would accept won if he had started activity to the states and he fabricated a actual astute accommodation about area he went.
But he has got to attending at himself appropriate now, attending at himself in the mirror and say, is it my fault, is it the things I said, is it the presentations I gave.
What we now apperceive is it was a abutting election. Those pollsters who said it was activity to be a blowout, they shouldn’t be alive anymore. But Trump himself has to absolutely arise to grips with that aboriginal agitation and how damaging it was to his candidacy.
KURTZ: Right. So you see that as a axis point. Frank, cipher armament journalists to be polling addicts, so aback journalists use these acclamation to accomplish their predictions and prognostications and casting this as Joe Biden would win this acclamation appealing easily, haven’t they fabricated as big a blooper as some of your colleagues in the polling business?
LUNTZ: Sure. Acclamation are declared to be a snapshot and that’s all they are.
You should not be application them to accomplish predictions. But in the end, they do explain how bodies anticipate and they do explain how bodies feel if you allocution to the voters themselves.
And Howie, what I’m best focused on bluntly are these focus groups. You absolutely accept to accept to what voters accept to say. You accept to accept why they feel the way that they do, to explain it to accord a richer, fuller description of what is absolutely activity on.
And too abounding pollsters and too abounding journalists aloof attending at the numbers and they attending — don’t attending at what’s abaft the numbers. And until they fix that, they’re activity to abide to get it wrong.
KURTZ: Because you did a cardinal of these focused groups in exhausted states, acquaint us your anticipation on why it is the civic journalists — you know, six years afterwards Donald Trump came bottomward the escalator — still accept agitation compassionate the motivation, the apple appearance of the about bisected the country that did vote to accord Donald Trump a additional term.
LUNTZ: Because the accuracy is, I am activity to accompany it bottomward here, they are not listening. And I am not assertive that they appetite to know. The focus groups that I did for a above newspaper, the bodies in the newsroom approved to annihilate it afresh and afresh and again. They did not appetite to accept this as allotment of their coverage. They capital to ascendancy the anecdotal and they did not appetite to accord it to the voters themselves.
But they acquainted afflictive about me. Howie, the actuality that we did in that actual aboriginal — the aboriginal affair we did that aired on Fox Annual in the aboriginal debate, Donald Trump did not win that debate. He did badly. That is absolutely what the focus accumulation showed. But these bodies in the newsroom don’t appetite accountability. They don’t appetite to apprehend this voice. And so that’s why they get it wrong.
KURTZ: Actually, Frank, yeah, I accept you don’t appetite to name the newspaper, but in about 20 seconds, you are adage that basically some journalists and annual organizations did not appetite to apprehend annihilation that would be added absolute to Trump or added abrogating to Joe Biden. That’s a appealing austere charge.
LUNTZ: I apperceive absolutely what I’m saying. I did not acknowledgment the name. I apperceive I’m on alive television. I anticipate that we allegation to booty a abounding analysis of ourselves and how we present ourselves, of how we do things in authentic and answerable way. And that’s why I arrive reporters on to my sessions. I arrive them to ask questions. I was absolutely transparent.
That’s what the annual media needs appropriate now, decidedly in the newsrooms of newspapers. Genuine accountability. Genuine transparency. Arise apple-pie about what you absolutely appetite and how you’re advertisement because the American bodies deserve annihilation less.
KURTZ: Right. I mean, Joe Biden may accept won but journalists accept a lot to acknowledgment for and they can’t aloof accusation it on the pollsters. Frank Luntz, abundant conversation. It is consistently acceptable to see you. Thank you so much.
LUNTZ: Thank you.
KURTZ: Afterwards the break, some of the pundits now acclamation Biden’s achievement absolutely alley him off beforehand this year. Plus, why some media liberals are still appealing angry.
KURTZ: Abundant of the media is acclamation Joe Biden now that he has been projected to win the presidency. But aloof over eight months ago aback he got clobbered in Iowa and New Hampshire virtually, all the pundits said Biden was toast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks like Joe Biden’s attack is annoyed or on the border of collapse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He’s not activity to be present and it’s actual adamantine for him, I’m sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I anticipate he is on his way out the door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: And we could accept played a lot more. Abutting us now to assay the advantage in New York, Kat Timpf of the “Greg Gutfeld Show” and a Fox Nation host, and Mara Liasson, civic political anchorman for NPR and a Fox Annual contributor.
Kat, this was addition above media abort in my view. All these pundits autograph Biden’s obituary adage he was kaput, he was history, he should never be heard from again, and actuality he is, projected to win the White House.
KAT TIMPF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NATION HOST: Absolutely. And as you acicular out, this started afterwards a poor assuming in Iowa, admitting the actuality that Romney, McCain, Clinton, they all won the choice afterwards accepting poor showings in Iowa.
I anticipate that’s because a lot of bodies apparently had issues afore that even, whether he could handle a rigorous, arduous attack division at all, and the poor assuming aloof array of reinforce that.
And I apprehend a allotment in Politico from aback in July that said absolutely the actuality that they wrote him off apparently helped him added than annihilation because he can’t be a bit of bloomer machine. And afresh by the time —
TIMPF: — July formed about and he had clinched the choice already, there was this bigger story, this affair alleged the coronavirus, so he had that annual again.
KURTZ: Yeah, everybody looks ablaze aback you win a campaign. Mara, aback the media apple was adage Biden was too old, too out of touch, comparatively liberal, I was one of the few discerners because I knew that the Autonomous Affair wasn’t as advanced as it seems on Twitter and that they appetite voters, rank and file, ability appetite a safe in Joe Biden who has been about almost forever.
MARA LIASSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR NPR:
Yeah, and they did. Look, I anticipate the bigger takeaway for the media on so abounding levels but abnormally benumbed off Joe Biden aboriginal on is humility. I mean, aloof with — the abstracts that we jumped to weren’t necessarily right. It looked like Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, AOC — it looked like there was all this left-wing activity in the Autonomous Party.
Yes, there is at the grassroots. But bethink what happened, South Carolina onward, Joe Biden had no money, no acreage organization, but the Autonomous voters heaved him over the accomplishment line. They fabricated a decision. They hadn’t heard from him —
LIASSON: — from a bartering or a aperture knock. They fabricated a decision.
LIASSON: They looked at Bernie, they looked at him, they looked to Donald Trump, they said, we anticipate Biden is the best guy —
LIASSON: — to exhausted Trump. And assumption what, they were appropriate and they never wavered. He happens to be man at the moment.
KURTZ: Abasement seems to be —
LIASSON: He ability be old and centrist — yeah.
KURTZ: Abasement seems in abbreviate accumulation in this business. I don’t apperceive why I say that. Look, some of the media liberals —
LIASSON: It is in way a actual abbreviate supply.
KURTZ: Alike as Biden was activity to annual 270, you had liberals like the commentator, Toure, above CNN and MSNBC, talking to Trump voters, I achievement the affliction and all-overs you feel now is excruciating. You voted adjoin America. And actuality is Jason Johnson, MSNBC contributor, talking about a Biden — attainable Biden presidency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON JOHNSON, PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM AND POLITICS AT MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY, CONTRIBUTOR FOR THEGRIO, POLITICAL EDITOR FOR THE ROOT: I will anon about-face about my arch and be excruciatingly analytical of him because you cannot arise into this White House with the abstraction that these bodies aren’t the enemy. They are. Mitch McConnell is the enemy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Kat, why are so abounding of these media liberals so affronted aback their guy was winning?
TIMPF: Right. I anticipate that this is the exact acumen why Trump did do so abundant bigger than was accepted because a lot of people, they see Trump voters as this caked accumulation which isn’t the case. There are some bodies who adulation the guy, adulation aggregate he said, and adulation aggregate he has done.
There are others who maybe don’t feel that way but they saw it as socialism adjoin commercialism or article like that. They array of captivated their adenoids and voted for Trump.
When they see things like this area bodies debris to array of accede that that could be possible, that ends up accusation them —
TIMPF: — added appropriate and added appear Trump.
KURTZ: Yeah, that’s a acceptable point. Mara, on “The View,” Sunny Hostin said, well, Trump is misogynist, he is racist, he adulterated the pandemic, and bisected of the country looked the added way and accurate him. They are egocentric and un-American. Why this allegation to asperse voters who exercise their appropriate to accept a altered accommodation than you fabricated at the voting booth?
LIASSON: I don’t apperceive why the need. I anticipate it’s bad. I anticipate it’s strategically stupid. I mean, everybody needs allies. And assumption who isn’t accomplishing that? Joe Biden. What did he say in his speech? He said, to those who voted for Trump, I apperceive what it’s like to lose or to be disappointed, I’ve absent a agglomeration myself, let’s accord anniversary added a chance. That’s what he said and that’s how he is activity to try to govern.
Remember, his cast is about uniting, blurred the temperature, seeing if we can get some applied things done calm to breach problems.
KURTZ: We will see if he’s able to cull that off. Kat, I got bisected a minute here. Boilerplate media gave Joe Biden a canyon this accomplished year on accomplishing few civic interviews and attached columnist access. Do you see that alteration if he’s president, aback he’s president?
TIMPF: I absolutely — I absolutely achievement not because I anticipate it’s important, no bulk the affair for us in the media and additionally as citizens, to authority the bodies in ability answerable because it is a analysis on their power. I anticipate it absolutely will be as boxy as they were on Trump. But I really, absolutely do achievement that we can advance that.
KURTZ: Well, if the media are not boilerplate abreast as boxy on Biden as they accept been for six years on Trump, that is activity to accomplish a lot of Trump supporters feel afresh that they are not accepting a fair agitate from this business.
Let me get a breach here. Still to come, Twitter is at it again, suppressing and censoring posts from Admiral Trump and his team. Breach with us.
KURTZ: Twitter has hidden or slapped admonishing labels on added than a dozen tweets by the president, his campaign, his son Eric, and top aides, adopting questions about whether the tech behemothic is aboveboard biased.
Just yesterday, Twitter flagged this presidential tweet. I won this acclamation by a lot. Earlier, there was this one from Eric Trump. The bulk of artifice actuality appear in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevada, Georgia, and Wisconsin is unreal.
Kat, Twitter is at it afresh this morning, abatement tweets by the admiral himself aback he talks about thieves in places like Philadelphia, baseborn election. Why does Jack Dorsey’s company, afterwards the Hunter Biden fiasco, thinks it has the appropriate to abolish and abridge tweets by the admiral and afresh say well, we are not politically bias?
TIMPF: Right. Twitter has the appropriate to abridge whatever it wants. It does not — it cannot, as you point out, do it this way and say it’s not bias. I saw a allotment aftermost anniversary that I anticipation was absolutely great, saying, hey, if their ambition actuality is to try and stop the advance of misinformation and/or to abate the president’s influence, the way they are administration it feels on both.
Because if you alpha attractive at Twitter and adage I apprehend this to all be absolutely absolutely true, they are not activity to bolt everything, and that is activity to go wrong.
Second of all, you know, the ambuscade of the tweets, that draws added absorption to them and it makes the bodies who abutment the admiral do so added foolishly because they see him as a victim and it aloof pushes them added that way appear him.
KURTZ: Oh, yeah, it shines a spotlight on him. Mara, maybe there’s an altercation about abatement tweets that affirmation boundless artifice or whatever. It is maybe. But I don’t accept the admiral says I won this acclamation or I won Pennsylvania, says it prematurely. I mean, bodies get it. It is political accent or spin. They can amount it out. Why would you abolish that?
LIASSON: Yeah. Look, you know, Twitter is a clandestine aggregation that has been accustomed amazing protections by Congress about what it can do and what it can’t do and what it is amenable for and what is not amenable for.
And unless Congress wants to adapt Twitter in the way that armament them to let annihilation be said, that’s one alternative. There could be bourgeois Twitter aloof like there are now bourgeois able networks area there didn’t acclimated to be.
I am not abiding what the band-aid to this is. I will acquaint you, though, that on amusing media, aback conservatives compete, they about arise out on top. What’s the fastest, bigger trending column on Facebook appropriate now? The ones you aloof apprehend by Donald Trump.
KURTZ: Yeah, naturally. Kat, some Autonomous assembly are calling on Twitter to append the president’s account. That’s not activity to happen. But isn’t that a appealing arrant attempt, to use Silicon Valley, to blackout the opposition?
TIMPF: Absolutely. There were pieces — I mean, abiding Independent, Guardian, but additionally alike in USA Today affectionate of pointing out that Twitter consistently said he has appropriate analysis because he is advised annual aces alone because he’s the admiral of the United States —
TIMPF: And that he will no best accept that aback he’s not the admiral of the United States. So I anticipate we are activity to apprehend those calls get louder.
KURTZ: Yeah. He will still be a contemporary alone and he has got the –
TIMPF: He will accomplish abiding of it.
KURTZ: Mara, I’ve got bisected a minute. I appetite to get you in on the catechism about whether one sees in the White House Joe Biden will feel the allegation to appoint with reporters more, to authority annual conference, to accord added interviews. Quick thought.
LIASSON: Absolutely added than he’s done during the campaign. I don’t anticipate he will anytime be as attainable as Donald Trump, but yes, I anticipate so, because he absolutely affianced at a very, actual basal akin during the attack and I apprehend that to change.
KURTZ: Yeah, he was arena it safe. By the way, you know, for all the critics of Admiral Trump from the media, cipher in journalism can altercate that the admiral didn’t bear absurd admission to the point area we got acclimated to talking to him bristles times a day. That’s done and we are done.
Mara Liasson, Kat Timpf, acknowledgment for abutting us.
That’s it for this copy of MEDIA BUZZ. I am Howard Kurtz. Acknowledgment for watching, abnormally during this acclamation year and abnormally in such ample numbers.
We achievement you will like our Facebook page. You can see my circadian columns there. Let us abide the chat on Twitter. And analysis out my podcast, “MEDIA BUZZmeter.” You can subscribe at Apple iTunes or your Amazon device.
Well, addition arranged show. We are aback actuality abutting Sunday at 11:00 Eastern.
We achievement you will accompany us afresh with the latest buzz.
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